Is the Classic Number 9 Dead? (Haaland vs. Spain) 🧬 | World Cup Daily #5

[00:00:00] For 30 years the striker had one job, stand in the box, score goals, everything else, someone else's problem. Then Guardiola came along and decided the striker should also be a midfielder. Then Klopp decided the striker should also be a defender. Now Haaland has arrived and scored 16 goals in 8 games and everyone is asking the same question. Was the Classic Number 9 dead or just waiting?

[00:00:31] Welcome back to Foot in Review World Cup Daily episode number 7. I am joined today by the man, the myth, the legend Artyom all the way from Poland and my good friend John there in sunny Perth or is it sunny Perth? We'll find out very soon. Just a very quick link to our Patreon supporters. This show will be in your feed very soon, almost as soon as we finish. Remember, the Prediction League is live, so get on.

[00:00:59] If you want to join your Patreon, check us out at patreon.com forward slash foot in review. And why wouldn't you? It's absolutely amazing, especially the World Cup just around the corner. And we'll have the sweep. John and I will be joining that very soon. So if you're thinking of joining, come on, join the Discord, Joe. Absolutely love it. Today we're going in deep on the striker. The number 9. The most iconic shirt in football. The most debated position in the modern game. Has the classic centre forward died?

[00:01:29] Or is Harlan proving it was never dead at all? And which sister wins the World Cup? We are going to go, we are going to settle that for you tonight. So let's go. Artyom, how you doing my friend? I've not spoken to you in ages. That's right. Thank you for having me. I'm so glad to be back, guys. So I hope I will, I mean, all will enjoy this show about the strikers. I'm all right. I'm okay. I'm doing great. And I hope you guys do well, too. I hope you're doing very well.

[00:01:57] Just very quickly, are you the classic number 9 man? Or do you like this new role that the striker has? You know what I have? Actually, before we choose the topic for this show, I actually had my thoughts about it. And I think it's kind of, that's my opinion. And like in every other sports, the football is evolving, right? So I'm looking even as I'm coaching my youngsters in basketball,

[00:02:25] I'm expecting those youngsters also to do basically everything. Like we are mixing positions right now. It's not like it used to be 20 years ago that we have a striker, we had a center back, left back, whatever. And then we're sticking to one position. Right now the football is evolving. Tactics are evolving. We're expecting those players to do basically everything on a pitch. I'm not saying that the striker is supposed to know how to goal keep. Not that far.

[00:02:54] But still, they should know how to create situations, how to be a playmaker, how to pass, how to score, how to win headers and also how to defend, right? It's not about the exact role of false nine or target four, but whatever dying. We adapt to what players we have in a team. We create tactics. If we have a world-class striker, we just prepare the tactics for them. And we also expect those players to do much more

[00:03:22] than we used to expect from there like a couple of years ago. Yeah. So there you are, folks. Our team, I think, is not the classic number nine, but let's go to the other Scott on the show. John, are you the classic number nine or are you very quickly into this sort of changing position? I love the classic number nine. Personally, I grew up in it, showing my age here. But see right now, hurts me to say it. Harry Kane, what a footballer. So as Art says, it's evolving.

[00:03:50] I still love watching an old number nine though. Yeah. Well, let's get into it, guys. Let's get into it. We'll try and get through these topics as quickly as possible because there's a lot to cover. So we are going to start with that classic number nine. Let's start at the beginning. For most football history, the striker had one job. Score goals. Alan Shearer, Batistuta, Didi Drogba. They were forces of nature. They lived in the penalty area. They came alive there. They didn't track back. They didn't link play. They didn't create for others. They were weapons.

[00:04:20] Pointed at the goal and fired. The centre-back's nightmare was simple and physical. Mark him. Compute with him. And don't let him turn. Everything was binary. The striker scores. The team wins. The striker doesn't score. The team loses. The era produced some of the most iconic moments in football history. Batistuta scoring a hat-trick in the World Cup. Drogba winning the Champions League final. Shearer at Euro 96. Yes, it pains me to say that, but he was absolutely marvellous. But football was all about the change completely. Absolutely.

[00:04:50] So, for you, Artem, who is the classic number nine for you? I mean, I could maybe guess you being Polish, but you tell us, who is the classic number nine to you? You know, this is not going to be a surprise. I'm going to go for Leva, right? Over here. And you know what? And the classic nine role for him works perfectly when he plays like in Barcelona. But I'm so upset when he's doing the same stuff like in a national Poland team. The reason why?

[00:05:18] Because he's not surrounded by the same class of players like in our national team. So, when he drops back, we're just missing that one player in front. You know what I mean? Yeah. But yeah, definitely, I'm going to go with Leva. I think his whole career proves that he's like perfect for side on classic nine. From your point of view, Art, unfortunately, Poland didn't make it to the World Cup. I'll say that very quickly, so not to upset you. Thank you for bringing it up and reminding me that. I do apologise, my friend.

[00:05:47] But is the next Leva for Poland round the corner? Or are you missing that player at the moment? We are. We are actually, you know what? We are missing from a couple of years because Leva is, I mean, no offense to him, of course, but he's getting old. He doesn't have the physical that he had before. So, we're already missing like player because whenever he plays 70, 80 minutes, we don't have a substitute for him. So, our strength right now, we are covering his position by our wingers.

[00:06:17] So, yeah. You know what? They are like substitute and this is how we adapt without missing the striker. Yeah. John, who is your classic number nine? From a Scottish perspective, I grew up watching Alan McCoy. I just think he was something else in the box. Absolutely phenomenal. Slight curveball, showing my age here. We used to have a thing called cable TV back in the day and there used to be a European football

[00:06:43] highlights programme and I could watch R9 at the start of his career at PSV and that was something else to see on the telly. It was like, what is this? Yeah, definitely. I mean, for me, I think R9 is that. You know, let's be honest. This is an FC podcast. We're doing World Cup as well. But R9 holds a special place for all of us. And I will ask you a question that may involve R9 near the end of the show. But, aye. So, for us, the classic number nine, you've heard it here.

[00:07:10] Lever for Art and Super Alli and the R9 for John. But, our next part though is the Guardiola revolution and the false nine. You know, Pep arrived at Barcelona and asked a radical question. What if the striker was not in the box but in midfield? What if instead of playing Messi as a winger, he played him as a centre forward who dropped deep, collected the ball, pulled defenders out of positions, let the full backs and wingers

[00:07:39] run into space? He created. Defenders face an impossible choice. Track Messi, leave the box empty. For whole position, a limb received the ball with time. There was no good answer. Barcelona were unstoppable. Robert Firmino at Liverpool took the concept even further. Firmino barely scored in the standards of his position at the moment. But he pressed, he ran, he linked, he created space. Liverpool weren't everything. Not because Firmino scored 30 goals but because his movement made Salah and Mane better.

[00:08:08] The false nine was no longer just about the player. It was about the system. So let me ask you guys. For you, let's go you first, John. Is the striker who creates more viable than the one who scores? I wouldn't say more viable. I think he just says something different. And I think what, as you said in that introduction to the topic, is it creates space for other people.

[00:08:35] So a bit like St Johnston last season, our top goal scorer was the winger because the striker presses, the striker drops a little bit deep. And it creates space for the midfield, the number 10 and the winger to score the goals. So I think it depends on that. And it only works, pressing, if you have really good players around. Sorry, the false nine in my eyes only works if you've got really good players around them. Because if he drops deep and those aren't good enough to cut in and do the damage, then it's a wasted system in my eyes.

[00:09:05] From you as a foot coach and a football coach, do you prefer that sort of false nine or would you rather have the classic number nine? Chris, that is a tough question because it's a complex question actually. Because usually the false nine striker, it's not a typical striker. We take a player who is a great dribbler, playmaker, or like Firmino, you said he's aggressive and can intercept the ball and fight for the team, right?

[00:09:35] But it also depends if you have those wingers or camps who can substitute the position for the striker when he's dropping back. It all depends on the team. I know we're going to go there to the Haaland in a couple of seconds and discuss about his role in Manchester City. And he's not capable of dropping back. I mean, maybe he is, but this is not the type of striker. So it also depends on what kind of players you have in your team.

[00:10:05] And the Guardiola, you're talking about bringing back that dropping back false nine role to Barcelona. But remember, he had the great players around. Yeah. Iniesta, Xavi, wingers, and everybody knew how to dribble. So the Messi dropping back or whoever played that false nine, he was just bringing those center backs with him. They couldn't let him just go like, you know, without cover.

[00:10:31] That left so much space for Suarez, Neymar, just to take a chance and score a goal. No, definitely. I mean, you're right. I think you build the team for the players you've got, haven't you? Do you know what I mean? You're not going to ask Haaland to do that sort of Messi role, are you? It just does not work. And then when you're talking about Messi, you're talking about one of the greats. Some would say he's the greatest of all times. But then that's another show I think we could easily get into about who's ever been the best player in the World Cup.

[00:11:01] But yeah, I agree with you. If you answer your question quickly, let's take Leva. I prefer him as a false nine in Barcelona, but I prefer him as a regular striker national pollen team. Yeah. No, definitely. I would say, yeah, it really, really just depends on the player, doesn't it? So then the next one, the third one for us, is the pressing forward. Defence starts up front.

[00:11:30] So the third evolution was the pressing forward. Klopp's gegen-pressing philosophy demanded that the striker be the first defender, harassing centre-backs with the ball, triggering mistakes, winning possession, high up the pitch. The striker who doesn't press is now a liability in the modern high-press system. Even Haaland, who's close to a classic finisher, as you'll find in the elite level, still presses.

[00:11:53] He might not win possession himself every time, but his pressing angles force defenders into mistakes that teammates exploit. The striker's job description has fundamentally changed. So, guys, I'm asking you, I'll go to you, Art. Is it fair to ask a goal scorer to be a defender? Where would you draw the line? I love when a striker is starting the press, but when he starts the smart press.

[00:12:18] I don't want him to just run out of the stamina in 20 minutes of the match, just running from one player to another. The smart press, I love it. But also, the important thing of the first player to start the press, if the team's joining you. There is no reason for you to run and try to intercept the ball if everybody's staying behind and doing nothing, right? So, you're not going to do it against three or four players in the back. They're going to just pass around you.

[00:12:45] So, I'm a fan of Real, and maybe some people will hate me in a couple of seconds. That's why I hate Vinny. He doesn't give you anything in defense. He loses the ball, and everybody has to cover it. So, you know, just like 15-20 more percent of his defending aggressiveness, that would have Real so much. Because he's great in attack, but the lack of defending, that's what pisses me off in the player.

[00:13:15] So, John, any thoughts on that sort of position? And, you know, we've just had a wee dig at Vinny as well. No, no. I think, like Art says, obviously, it's a slightly Scottish bias here, right? I've grown up watching Scotland under Andy Roxburgh, Craig Brown, etc., etc. And it was always, we'd defend from the front. Now, it wasn't the smart press that Art talked about.

[00:13:40] The striker tended to run, chasing one defender to the next defender to the next defender. And we would say after 60 minutes, what a great holding, you know, great pressing game. And the guy would come off aptly shattered after 60, 65 minutes. And the next record would come on and we'd do exactly the same. And it wasn't fun to watch because we didn't do it properly. And, you know, I'm not a coach, but you could see it. We didn't score lots of goals. We still lost games. But I get why you did it in your building.

[00:14:10] You're not a great team playing a better team. So you defend from the front. As you were talking about in Vinny, and realistically, Real Madrid, they're all a bit gung-ho. But they're so good, they can allow Vinny to not defend because they can cover those gaps. But with Scotland, everybody has to defend back in those days. But for me, I get the basis of it. I don't like it. Okay. No problems. So interesting comments here, guys.

[00:14:39] So we'll go on to now the part four, which is the Harland paradox. You know, there he is, that beautiful blonde Viking, the long flowing hair. He appears to be a throwback to the classic number nine. But it's actually something entirely new. I mean, he scored 16 goals in eight qualifying games. Double the next highest goal scorer in Europe. He stays central. He runs behind. He finishes with ruthless efficiency.

[00:15:05] But he does it with a physicality and pace and the finesse of a 21st century athlete. He is an Alan Shearer reborn in a body that can run at 35 kilometers per hour. He is a classic striker who has been upgraded. At Man City, Guardiola, the man who reinvented the striker position with the false nine, has built his entire system around him. You know, Harland, the traditional finisher. And that tells you everything. Guardiola tried the system without a striker. It worked beautifully.

[00:15:33] Then he gets the striker and he won a treble. The conclusion? The best system is a great system with a great finisher in it. The false nine is no better than the classic route nine. It's a workaround for when you don't have Harland. So, guys, do you buy that? What I've just said? Is Harland proof that the classic striker never actually died? John, I'll come to you first. To an extent, yes. He scores goals.

[00:15:59] He scores goals for fun because the people around him put the ball in the box for him or put them over the top and he runs on and he bullies people and he puts the ball in the back of the net. So, it's about the right player and the right squad at the right time. So, not everybody else is using that type of striker because they've not got the team for it. And there are not that many of that type of striker available for teams to play that formation or that type of football anymore. So, again, it's never been gone. People score goals.

[00:16:28] It's lower leagues, higher leagues. There's always somebody scoring goals. And I think it's just about horses for courses. Art, would you say the same? That the classic nine has never really died? Of course it never died. It's just like still, again, complex question and it all depends on the team that we have. You know what? I was just scrolling on Twitter today and I had some replay of the game of Manchester City

[00:16:56] and the question why Guardiola decided to bring Haaland to Man City. And the reason was that the players were just passing around in the box, like making 12 passes and nobody tried to even shoot. He had great playmakers in the team. Silva, who was, I'm sorry, De Bruyne, right? Foden, Mahrez, but not the real striker.

[00:17:21] So the Haaland in that Manchester City tactic, it was just a great addition. And Guardiola, of course, the magic of tactician, he knew what he's doing. He needed that force who was just blind. He would take the ball and just shoot and squirt. Yeah. No, I understand that. But he needed those great passers to give him the ball. Yeah, because it's noticeable when Haaland first came, he was standing in positions. Chris, if you go back, just look at the Haaland goals.

[00:17:49] You said he scored 60, 70, whatever goals he scored, the amount of goals he scored. How many goals he scored without the assist? No, that's true. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Most of the goals are from the perfect passes. Yeah. He's a great striker in that he's very good at pinning the defender down. So he's great at holding the defender of his physicality. But it was noticeable when he first came to City that they weren't passing to him. He was taking up the position.

[00:18:17] And as you say, Foden has the ability to cut it back to him. And they were trying to play to score the perfect goal. I think that's where maybe Man City, the team learned to play for Haaland as opposed to having Haaland in the team. And him just being, he became the kind of focal point for there. So, guys, we'll quickly move on to our fifth part, which is the World Cup. It's the ultimate test. You know, here's the tactical argument this World Cup will actually answer.

[00:18:45] Spain, the tournament favourites, don't have a traditional striker. They build around Yamal, Nico Williams, with their width and movement of attack. Elisabal leads the line, you know, but drops deep. Their system is pure fluid football. And then we go to, like, the heavy metal rock star of Norway, a genuine dark horse. They're the opposite. They're built entirely around Haaland in the box. Get the ball to him. Let him score.

[00:19:15] Repeat. If Spain wins their tournament, the argument for the fluid attacking system, no traditional striker, movement over physicality, is confirmed at the highest possible level. If Norway go deep and Haaland wins the golden boot, the argument for the classic finisher is back with force. The World Cup has the power to settle this debate in a way that a club season cannot. 48 nations, seven knockout games, one winner.

[00:19:41] We'll know more about the future of the striker position on July 19th than we know today. But, Art, I'll come to you first. Are you Spain without a striker or Norway with Haaland? And which system do you back and why? Well, listen, I don't think Spain has much of choice. I mean, I know the Orizabao is a solid player, but he's not a world-class striker. So what are they going to do? They're going to build around wingers.

[00:20:10] They have great wingers, Yamal and Nico, right? So that's why they're taking the force-nine approach. You remember the time when they had Raul Torres, whatever, Morientes? They were building around the force-nine. But they don't have that option. What option has Norway? I mean, they're going to go for Sarlok, Haaland, and just brute force. They are Vikings, so they're going to do that, right? Which approach I like?

[00:20:37] I mean, for just a regular football supporter, and what I prefer to watch, of course I prefer to watch Spain. Just a more pleasant for my eyes, right? But if it comes, who's going to win the golden boot? I wouldn't be surprised if somebody from Norway would win it. Not at all. Haaland is capable of scoring four or five goals in one game, and I wouldn't be surprised. No, definitely.

[00:21:05] John, being a Scot, are you all about fast-flowing football movement everywhere? Or as I say, is it the heavy metal rock star Norway? I don't know. I think there's a place for both. And as Art says, you build your team around who you've got. So, as you said, they don't have a Ruau or Morientes anymore. So, this pass-move in, pass-move, pass-move works really well. Fantastic wingers with pace, great. Like you said, you've got physicality, you've got brute force up top.

[00:21:35] And it's a place for that. Because you'll see it yourself. Don't you love a really good cross and a bullet header in the corner of the net? There's something about that that's missing. And when you see it, you're like, yes! Just like we talked about the older days. So, you know what? If I had to watch a game and I was a total neutral, I would love a bit of the pass-in movement, because that's really good to see technical. But also, I love a good bullet header. Yeah, definitely.

[00:22:02] Guys, it would be remiss of us not to talk about this, and we will be accused of English bias if we do not mention, from my mind, the complete forward in Harry Kane. I mean, the man has everything. He's a goal scorer. He creates, he links up play. He's the penalty taker. 78 international goals. You know, who can forget the pass that he played to Diaz when Bayern Munich played against PSG? Pinpoint accuracy.

[00:22:30] You know, he's England's all-time top goal scorer. He drops deep, turns, drives. I mean, he is the modern player, the modern template, sorry, of the ultimate striker. Art, from your point of view, do you see Harry Kane potentially being the golden boot? I mean, he has one advantage, and it's a huge advantage. His football placement, like, he knows exactly by centimetres

[00:22:59] where he wants to send the ball to. I mean, his capability of sending the ball to every corner that he wants to, he does it. In every league, in every, like, you know, it was happening in England, it's happening in Germany right now. He's slow, and still, he knows how to protect the ball and just place it wherever he wants to. I'm amazed by that kind of striker.

[00:23:27] And Levi is kind of similar to him, but not as perfect with the finishing, like, Hurricane. Yeah. You know, and John, from you as a Scot, are you singing Harry's praises? It hurts me to say, but yes, I am. He's absolutely a phenomenal player. Like, he can head out, he can score good on both feet, he can hold up the ball, but he can also pass the ball. And when he passes the ball, he's got movement, he knows where to go to turn the man,

[00:23:56] get in the box for the pass back. He's just really, really good. Phenomenal. You know, that's why he's worth so much money, that's why he's the record goal scorer, that's why he's gone to Bayern Munich and winning trophies for fun. The guy is really, really good. And as a Scot, to say that, it's quite hard. No, I mean, he is a wonderful player. I don't think he's, you know, people think he's slow. I don't think he's slow at all, I must admit. But guys, it would be the rest of you

[00:24:25] before we close off the show is, Art, who is your, first of all, I don't think you and I have been on a show during the World Cup series, so we need to give who we think is going to win the World Cup and who you think will be the golden boot winner. All right, so first of all, I'm not going to be like, I'm going to be boring here. For me, it's like two teams for right now. It's Portugal and France. That's the teams that I think has the most chances. And regarding the gold, oh, okay.

[00:24:54] And I'm going to mention one team that I'm expecting to go far and play nicely, Japan. This is the team that I don't think, like, everybody's cheering for them, but I am kind of. I watch their games and it's just fun to watch. And if it comes to golden boot, I'm going to go with the players from South America. Not sure which country, but I'm going to go from there. I mean, they're playing quick and there are goal scoring machines over there.

[00:25:23] Yeah, okay. So... That's not going to be... I'm just going to say the last word, the last sentence. It's not going to be huge, like everybody knows the name. It's going to be somebody surprising. Okie dokie. John, I know you've been on the show, you've given your tip for the winners, but golden boot, who do you fancy to take the golden boot? I've just got a goal with Mbappe. I just think that power, that pace, he's something to prove, you know.

[00:25:53] Obviously, it's not a great time at Real Madrid. A good time, but, you know, they're not winning, like Barcelona are winning. So, I think Mbappe, especially, you know, he's moved from PSG to Real Madrid and then PSG just happened to win a couple of Champions Leagues, you know, put them in their back pocket. So, I think he's got something to prove. So, I think it'll be him. Interesting. Well, I will certainly think that, and I'm wearing an orange top tonight, a wonderful thing from Crete. I think the Netherlands will win.

[00:26:22] I was watching CNN, they had an economist on who's predicted the last three winners of the World Cup and he has predicted a Portugal-Nerlands final with Netherlands winning. So, you never know. We will make John happy if that happens. In terms of Golden Boot, I think it's hard to see past the complete striker that Harry Kane is. The fact that he takes the penalties, England have an exceptionally strong team as well. It may not come home, as they say, but I think he may be the Golden Boot winner come the end.

[00:26:51] But, guys, that's been a wonderful show. I love talking about goal scorers. I really do. Let's be honest, that's what makes the game exciting. So, to everybody, this has been the show about the strikers. From Sheera to the false nine to Harland, the debate is live. The World Cup will settle it. But before you go, please follow us on Instagram at Foot Review or at TikTok at Foot Review Podcast. You know, a five-star review. The guys have been wonderful. They deserve a five-star for this.

[00:27:21] So, please, when it's safe to do so, stop and give us a five-star review. It really, really is important. It takes a few seconds and it means a lot to us. If you could share this episode with someone who doesn't listen to us, we'd love that as well. People who love the World Cup, you can hear the passion in our voice about it. And to our Patreon supporters as well, thank you so much for being there. And if you want to join, check us out at patreon.com forward slash Foot Review. As I say, we've got the predictor game. That's wonderful. And the sweep. It's free to enter. These are absolutely

[00:27:50] amazing things to do. So, please, come and join us. Next show is going to be about the best 11 players who will not be at the World Cup. Unfortunately, one of them may be Lev and Dosky. I'm trying not to insult my good friend Art. You know, whether it be injuries, failed qualifications, or just that snub from the manager, the guys are going to discuss it. The players who deserve to be there, guys, we'll see you then. Thank you. Thank you, guys.