Villains & Conspiracies: The Dark Side of the World Cup! 🕶️ | World Cup Daily #10

[00:00:00] The World Cup is the greatest show on earth and sometimes the greatest show has its darker moments. A headbutt in a World Cup final, a bite in broad daylight, a handball that killed a continent's dream, a mystery illness that may have changed history, a captain who walked out before a ball was kicked. This is the Dark Side of the World Cup.

[00:00:27] Welcome to Foodton Review, I am Chris. Today I have two special guests with me, John K and Homer. And today we are going somewhere dark. Yes, I am not talking about the trophy cabinet at Ibrox. I am talking about the World Cup, the greatest show on earth, but it has a shadow side. Moments that are jaw-dropping for all the wrong reasons. Villains, controversies, conspiracy theories, stories that changed careers and broke hearts.

[00:00:54] We've got two moments. John K is going to talk about Zidane and Maradona. Homer is going to talk about Anu Wang and Andros Escobar. And I'm also going to talk about R9 and Roy Keane. Let's get into it. Gents, how are you? Let's start with you, John. How are you, my friend? Very good. Getting excited for the World Cup. I've got the beers in already, got the draft kegs delivered, and ready to go and talk some World Cup stories. Amazing, amazing. And for you, Graeme, how are you? Are you excited?

[00:01:25] Not yet. I generally get excited once it actually starts, but yeah, I'm looking forward to it. Brilliant, brilliant. So let's get into it then. So what we're going to do is, we had loads and loads of moments on the dark side of the World Cup, and what we did is we all picked two each. So we're going to start with one of John's that he wanted, and let's start at the beginning. It's the 110 minute of the World Cup final, the greatest player of his generation, playing the last match of his career,

[00:01:52] and he headbutted someone in the chest with the whole world watching. There's no great example of a human being being completely overwhelmed by emotion in the biggest moment of their professional life. Zidane had a magnificent tournament. He was the reason France was in that final, and then in a single moment it was gone. Matarazzi admitted years later what he said. Zidane said he would do it again.

[00:02:18] Italy won, and the image of Zidane walking off past the World Cup trophy, not touching it head down, is one of the most haunting images in World Cup history. But who's to blame? Zidane for the reaction, or Matarazzi for his provocation? So let's start with you John. Where does the blame squarely lie? 50-50, and this is the downside, right? The game is a sporting event. Used to be sporting was treated with gentlemanly conduct.

[00:02:46] Yeah, that's gone out the window now. It's a win at all costs mentality. Now that, as you've already said, handballs, biting, karate kicks to the chest, you name it, people will do anything to get their team the win. What Matarazzi supposedly said is undefendable. But again, I believe he said he would do it again.

[00:03:09] And Zidane's reaction was, as you said, devastating for that player of his generation to do it. And I think what people forget though is, it was Zidane that scored first with a beautiful Panenka. Yep. Matarazzi himself equalized. And then it would be those two players that would have it. And if you look at Zidane through history, even as a manager, he carries himself so calmly.

[00:03:33] So he was really, really provoked to the extent that he just snapped in an instant from somebody that is normally as cool as a cucumber. So for me, while I'm saying 50-50, I think there's more on Matarazzi than there is on Zidane. But I just think, everybody remembers the headbutt, but I think people forget the Panenka. Yeah. It's just such a weight of shame. Yeah. And the thing about that Panenka was it was a goal, but it never actually touched a net. It hit the top of the bar, bounced in the goal and then bounced out again.

[00:04:03] And, you know, as they say, it was a wonderful tournament for him. I think he may have actually been player of the tournament that was given at half-time. Yes, he was. He was still player of the tournament. Yeah, because the votes were in before the final was played. So he was voted player of the tournament in the Golden Boots thing. So, yeah, just what a career. And it just to be slightly overshadowed at the very, very end. However, we're a foot podcasting game, normal podcast. He's still an icon.

[00:04:33] He's an icon for that reason. Yeah, no, definitely. And for you, Homer, you know, you're a mad Italian football fan. Does this moment define Zidane's legacy or does his career transcend that moment? I think it certainly sours the note of it a tiny bit. Zidane was prone, when he's provoked, to lash out. He'd done it quite a few times when he played for Juventus in Italy, a few times in France, when he was with Bordeaux.

[00:05:00] So he was prone to being a bit handsy or heads in this case. But no, generally you look at everything else. How many Marseille roulettes did they do people with on a regular? The assists, the phenomenal volley at Hampden Park against Leverkusen, the Penenka that pretty much, as you said, everybody sort of forgot about. But the guy's trophy cabinets to be desired.

[00:05:27] So as a sour note, but he's still an icon for a reason, as John says. No, definitely. And, you know, soon to be the France manager after this World Cup. So you may actually see him lifting the World Cup again in the managerial role. And he's had such a successful career with Madrid as well as the manager. So it'll be interesting to see how his career progresses through that. I'm sure he's going to be an absolute success, especially with the squad that he's got. And some of those players. So, yeah, interesting take on that.

[00:05:55] And this one, we go back to 2002. And actually, 2002 comes up quite a fair bit in our podcast today. This one is about Roy Keane and how he walked out of Ireland. So, Ireland are at the World Cup. Their captain's Roy Keane, one of the most driven, uncompromising competitors the sport has ever produced. He looks around the preparations, the facilities, the attitude and decides it's not acceptable. His job was to win football matches.

[00:06:23] His opinion is that you cannot win football matches with this level of preparation. He says so publicly, loudly, in a way that makes every headline in Ireland and England. So the question is guys, was he right? Probably. Was he diplomatic? Absolutely not. McCarthy sent him home. Ireland went without their best player, but still managed to reach the last 16, losing on penalties to Spain. Mick McCarthy said years later that Ireland might have gone further with Keane.

[00:06:52] Keane said he has no regrets. The two men have barely spoken since. One of the great unresolved arguments in Irish sport. So again, we'll ask ourselves who was right? Keane or McCarthy? Was Keane a disruptive influence who deserved to be sent home? Or a leader whose standards were too high for a federation that went ready to meet them? Graham, what's your thoughts on it? I'd say Keane was in the right. You just need to look at the preparations for this World Cup.

[00:07:20] Senegal playing on a pitch that's pretty dead and they're laughing at how bad the ball doesn't even bounce. You've got Japan. They are based in America, but they're warming up for a game in Monterey. And their training facilities are god-awful. And they're looking at each other going, how are we going to prepare for one of the biggest games of our lives with these sort of standards? So Keane was right. He was there to win. They had belief that that team could go far. And he believed that everything was substandard.

[00:07:49] Like you said, the FAI didn't really have the financials or the will to spend the money, but he was ultimately right. He wanted to win and he wanted the best for his teammates. I mean, we see what happened at Man United, you know, when he did the interview for Man United TV. And if you look at the, you know, the interviews since then, himself and Fergie have never spoken since that day. So are we looking, John, at a player who's got form for this?

[00:08:18] Do you feel that the manager was right because he felt his authority was challenged? Or do you side with the player? The player's stance was maybe correct, but it shouldn't have been so vocal. Absolutely. Because all that does is undermines the manager. And when you undermine the manager, you create fractures in the dressing room. And we've all got, we've all had clubs or nations that we've followed. And with, you don't like the manager, you don't like the manager's play style, etc, etc.

[00:08:48] But he is ultimately the man at the top. And as a player, as a fan, sorry, you can say some things, but as a player, I think sometimes you just got to bite your tongue. So while maybe his, like you said, he felt there was lots wrong in the build up and the preparation. He should, that should have been all public, internally raised. That should have gone to the public. So for me, I support McCarthy and sending him home. I mean, Graham, I don't, he did play for Ireland afterwards when McCarthy left,

[00:09:17] but I don't think he ever played in a major championship after that, did he? Not that I can remember off the top of my head, to be honest. No, I don't think he did. You know, and it's like when we talk about, you and I have talked about George Best never getting to a World Cup. You know, these great players missing out because they maybe play for, let's be honest, we're all Scottish here, a smaller nation. We can say that fairly confidently. So it is difficult. But let's then move still in.

[00:09:42] We'll stay in 2002 and we're going to talk about Aung-Yong Wan, the golden goal and the sacking. This is one of yours, Graham, that you wanted to talk about. So let me give everybody the backstory. Aung-Yong grew up in poverty, raised by his grandmother. He only started playing football because his local youth club gave away, gave the players, sorry, bread and milk. He had two poor seasons at Perugia before the tournament.

[00:10:07] He started the World Cup on the bench playing for Hoos Hiddink, who told him before a ball was kicked that his tournament would change his life. He was right. Aung-Yong scored the goal that sent South Korea to the quarterfinals, the best run by an Asian nation in the World Cup history so far. And he was sacked by his club for doing so. He became a national hero in South Korea and the country's most famous sports broadcaster. Prugia relegated the following season. Luciano Gauche eventually fled Italy in disgrace after the financial scandal.

[00:10:37] The man who sacked a national hero for scoring a World Cup goal ended up bankrupt and in exile. And Aung-Yong, he's doing very well. The bread and milk certainly paid off. So if I'm right in saying this, Graham, he scored against Italy, didn't he? But that wasn't the only story of that match, was it? No, the game was very controversial. Totti was sent off for a dive that wasn't a dive. Tomasi, I think it was, scored a goal that was disallowed, which shouldn't be disallowed.

[00:11:07] So Italy were very, obviously, aggrieved by the refereeing standards. And then it goes to the extra time, golden goal, and Wang scores the goal. Which means the next day he finds out that his so-called permanent transfer to perusure after his two years loan was terminated. Gauce, who isn't really the nicest person in the world, obviously financial scandals, called him out in his nation. A lot of horrible, xenophobic things.

[00:11:36] Which then resulted in, a couple weeks later, Gauce tried to buy him after trying to kill the scandal a bit. Wang said, no, I'm not coming back. He took it to FIFA. Unfortunately, FIFA agreed that the situation was wrong, he could leave. But he would have to pay perusure and Gauce a fee. Which, luckily a Japanese entertainment company paid off for him. That meant that he had to spend three years of his earlyish career stuck in Japan playing football.

[00:12:01] But even prior to the World Cup being at perusure, it is said that he had a poor two years. But a lot of it was, I think he only got 10, maybe 15 starts. He would constantly not play him. If he did come on, it was the tail end. And a lot of it, Wang has said that was down to the fact that he was a Korean and he was an outsider. We've mentioned him already for his dark arts. Marco Matarazzi was accused of being racist to him on a daily basis. So, his whole time in Italy was just appalling.

[00:12:27] So, it's sort of that bittersweet moment where he's the one that puts Matarazzi in Italy out of the World Cup for all the mistreatment that he had. Mm-hmm. And, John, do you remember that game at all? Don't remember the game, but I remember the headline and the story that came after it. Mm-hmm. And it's just despicable behaviour from the club. Despicable. No, definitely. So, unfortunately, we need to go to a very dark place for this one.

[00:12:56] This takes me back to 1994, where the World Cup was in the USA, like very much like this year. So, Colombia arrived at the World Cup 94 as one of the favourites. Pele had tipped them to win. They had beaten Argentina 5-0 in qualifying. The weight of an entire nation was on them. Then they lost 3-1 to Romania in the opener. Death threats arrived by fax to the players at their hotel. The coach considered resigning.

[00:13:22] And then Andres Escobar, a quiet, thoughtful man known as the gentleman of the field, deflected a ball into his own net against the USA and Colombia went home. He had been invited to stay in America while things calmed down, but he refused. He flew home to Medellin, confident he'd be welcomed back. He was 27 years old. He was planning to marry his girlfriend later that year. Unfortunately, he was shot dead in a parking lot 10 days after his own goal.

[00:13:49] With the World Cup still being played, his funeral drew thousands. People followed the car carrying his body on a 10-mile walk to the cemetery. This is not a dark moment in football. This is a moment football collides with a worse world, with the worst that the world has to offer. So from your point of view, Graham, does any other moment in this episode come close to this in terms of what it says about football and society? For the grand scheme of things, no.

[00:14:19] The man ultimately lost his life. People lost their careers. They never played an international game again. Some of them were sick for a period of time. Some of them are public enemy number one, but a loss of life is the worst thing possible. Like you said, he was going to go back and marry his girlfriend. He'd been invited to stay in Las Vegas because he had relatives there. They felt, no, I did nothing wrong. I'm going to go home. People love me there. It'll be all right. It'll blow over. He went out with his friends to a bar.

[00:14:49] They went to an off-license, we would call it, or a liquor store if you're from America, to get some extra drinks before they went back to his friend's house in the car park. I can't remember if he was leaving or after, before going into it. He was shot six times. And every time he was shot, the assassin shouted, Go! To mock him. His funeral was massive. People followed the hearse for a long time.

[00:15:18] So it is, I think, one of the darkest things. Because, like I said, you can lose a game and it's a bit of money, it's a bit of pride. You can maybe lose your international career, but losing your life over it's just the worst thing. No, 100%. And John, what does this tell us about the pressure placed on players in countries where failure has consequences that extend far beyond the football pitch? It's unacceptable, isn't it?

[00:15:45] There's no reason ever to take somebody's life in a sporting event or the fixer of result. Now, we all get passionate at games. Sometimes a goal stands that shouldn't or a refereeing decision goes against you. Don't get me wrong, I'm quite a gentleman, but at the football my language can be a little bit. But that's where it stops. You're not chasing down people's addresses. You're not driving around trying to find them. And you're certainly not shooting them and shouting, Go! It's just a really sad day.

[00:16:16] No, 100%. And, you know, it's hard to move on for that, but that we must do. So we are going to now move back to 1998, to France, the last time that Scotland actually qualified for the World Cup. And this is about our nine. So, Ronaldo in 1998 was the best player in the world. He had won the Ballon d'Or twice. The entire world expected him to destroy France in the final. Then his name was missing from the team sheet. Then it reappeared.

[00:16:46] But he played like a man who had no business to be on the football pitch. He had taken ill previously that day. If you listen to Ronaldo's report, he had, he believes he had lost consciousness for about four minutes and was in the hospital. So, why did this happen? The night conspiracy theory has never gone away. The Brazilian Football Federation president at the time, Ricardo Teixeira, was later convicted on corruption charges. The full truth may never emerge, but what do we know?

[00:17:15] He was a 21-year-old boy who suffered a serious medical episode before the biggest match of his life. And then somebody decided he would play anyway. And then for four years on the same stage, he came back and scored twice in the final. Is this the greatest redemption story in World Cup history? So, let me ask you, John. Was Ronaldo, in your opinion, fit to play in the 1998 final? Absolutely not. You just had to see it.

[00:17:40] The fact he wasn't on the team sheet, and then he was, and when he did play, he was, like you said, a ghost of himself, right? He was obviously coerced, is probably the word. He was coerced to play when he clearly wasn't. Now, there's a gamble thing there, isn't there? Your best player's carrying an ock. Do you want, you know, you'll maybe take a gamble. You shouldn't, but clubs do it at the time. But this was much serious. He was unconscious for potentially four minutes.

[00:18:05] That's not something of a, yeah, take a sip of water, let's get the magic spray and go back out there and perform. So, I think that's, yeah, and it took a long time for him to recover from that. Yeah, definitely. I mean, the thing is, from that point of view, come to you then, Homer. Does the 2002 redemption story make it extra special? You know, does it make the 1998 the bootful part of the story, or does it not excuse what actually happened that night in Paris?

[00:18:37] It doesn't excuse what happened. I think it's a bit of a problem that they believed that if he took a seizure, that he'd seen some doctors in America that believed that he had a seizure and that he should never been on the pitch. He clattered and he barred us and got injured later on in the game, I'm pretty sure. He was a shell of a person. He should have been on the pitch. I think it would have been better that he'd won the golden ball. He was arguably the best player of the tournament.

[00:19:00] I think if he was fit, properly fit, in a state of mind where he could perform, I think he would have came away with the player of the tournament as well. So it has a good, obviously, redemption mark that he came back and he proved that he could win a World Cup for Brazil. Obviously, he was helped by some great players, but he did do a lot of the donkey walk himself. So it was a great redemption mark for him. No.

[00:19:28] I mean, I think if you also listen to the interviews out there, you've got players like Leonardo who played in that game saying that Edmundo was meant to take Ronaldo's place and all the training had been based around Edmundo. So even the things like the corner kicks, defending them, Edmundo was meant to mark certain places. And if you look at the two goals, Eddane scored two goals from corners before they scored the third, you'll see that Ronaldo is not really marking properly.

[00:19:54] And I think that's one of the reasons why, potentially, you've got a Brazil no winning. Edmundo had been there in training with the players and the organisation was completely wrong. So it was a gamble that certainly didn't play off. But what a story it was. If anybody gets a chance, if you have not seen it, check out the 2002 World Cup just to see how good R9 was in his pump. I think he'd come back from a serious injury and that would have made the redemption story extra special as well. Finishing top goalscorer, I think it was him and Rivaldo right up to the last minute who was going to win.

[00:20:22] And he was absolutely, he played amazing. And people may forget because it was quite a fist time ago, but if you ever want to go back and look how good he was, he was one of the world's great players from that point of view for R9. And guys, if my maths are right, I believe there's just one to go. Probably the greatest moment of dark arts then followed by one of the most beautiful goals you'll ever see. And John, I hope you didn't pick this one simply because you're a Scot and it's against England.

[00:20:52] But we are going back to Mexico, 1986. One of the most controversial goals ever scored. And then four minutes later, probably one of the greatest. The one that has actually probably spanned, sorry, born the greatest nickname, the hand of God. You know, let's start with it. You cannot separate the two goals. That's the point. Maradona cheated. Deliberately, consciously in a quarter final.

[00:21:22] Let's just say, I don't know if he'll ever admit to that himself. So let's allege that then. So four years after the Falcons war. So there was a real political framing of this match. Then four minutes after the handball, he receives it, the ball in his own half, runs 60 metres, beats five outfield players and the goalkeeper and scores one of the greatest individual goals in the history of the sport. The same man, four minutes, villain and genius.

[00:21:49] England players, they knew immediately Peter Shilton was apoplectic. The referee, a Tunisian official, had a poor view of the challenge. No VR in those days, didn't see it. FIFA confirmed later that Maradona had used his hand. He never formally apologized. He called it a little rascally in a one interview. Argentina went on to win the tournament. Maradona was named the best player of the World Cup. So, John, this is your section. Does the goal of the century cancel out the hand of God?

[00:22:19] Or are they completely separate acts that should be judged independently? Judged independently. Because let's be honest, it is a little bit. It's unfair being Scottish that when that first goal went in, it was a bit of a whoop. Right? That's just little brother not liking big brother. Okay? But that second goal was, and still is probably the goal of the tournament. But for a certain generation, they won't even know about that goal.

[00:22:46] Because all they know about is hand of God and how they were cheated. So, they're two different situations. He should never have done it. He's not the only person. We had a big list of things to talk about. There's another hand ball that we could have talked about that devastated the continent. So, and again, I've referenced it before. Win at all costs. You know? But how many other times have we seen players jump? Hit it with their hand. You know?

[00:23:14] They're clearly offside, but they act like they were never offside. Win at all costs. But for me, they're two separate. He should never have done it. He did do it. But that second goal is just, what a piece of art. I mean, the thing is, we could talk about VAR, but we'd still be on here, but when the World Cup starts. If they had got VAR, we'd have been, you know, from a football point of view, denied not only a talking point, but actually probably the greatest nickname in football, hand of God. You know?

[00:23:44] But, Homer, let's come to you. Is Maradona a villain or the most human footballer who has ever played? Eh, a bit of both. He was the guy that literally had the devil on his shoulder. Sometimes he would listen to him. Sometimes he wouldn't. He had some divine talent. So, like, he would have God in one side telling him how to play the game as beautiful as he did. That goal, like, if you've never seen it, go and look it up. It is phenomenal.

[00:24:13] But then I think it's both sides of his creative genius. It's like, people say he's crazy and genius, walks a fine line. And that day two goals within that short period of time really exemplifies it. He cheats to get the goal, but it's just the way that he, in that split second, he knows he's not going to hit it. So he just pops the hand up and gets it. And then the second goal, like you said, he just gets the ball and runs through so many players and just dispatches it so nicely. So, a lot of people will see him as a villain.

[00:24:43] I think he's just a genius that walked that tightrope. No, definitely. I mean, the thing is, you have to remember that Maradona for me will always be the greatest player. I realise for a newer generation that could be Messi or Ronaldo or, you know, if you're older than me, you'd potentially look at Pele. But for me, the 1986 World Cup is the greatest performance by a single player that I've ever witnessed live. And he is always will be a genius.

[00:25:10] And he played in an era where the defender could leave with your leg and not get sent off. Yeah, I think people forget that, Chris. Yeah, the pitches weren't great and the tackles. It's not quite the 70s tackles, but still in the 80s. Yeah, you could take a big chunk of skin or flesh with you and the ref didn't even give a yellow. No, definitely. He was built like a tank and he knew how to use his small, diminutive size and strength. He was an absolutely wonderful player.

[00:25:38] But yeah, the hand of God is our last one to finish with. Is he the greatest villain of all time? Well, actually, we could have talked about Suarez twice, his bite in Chiellini or his handball in South Africa. But he didn't quite make the cut from that point of view. But guys, it's been absolutely wonderful. We've had loads of great shows. I mean, the World Cup, I think, is just around the corner for us. We're all super excited. We've given you six dark moments tonight from the three hosts.

[00:26:04] All the drama, but please, before you go, could you follow us on Instagram at Foot & Review? We'd really love that. Or TikTok at Foot & Review Podcast. There's loads of great clips up in there. If you've enjoyed the shows, I'm sure you have, please leave a five star review on your podcast app. It literally takes seconds. Share this episode as someone who'd love who's traveling to the World Cup. I'm sure we've got a lot of friends now who are boarding planes and maybe need something to listen to. So who'd be interested in listening to the dark side of the World Cup as they travel?

[00:26:34] And for our Patreon supporters, well, this show will be in your feed. And the Prediction League and sweeps are just around the corner. So if you've not done it yet, get in there, guys. You've got to the kickoff to get it done. And the sweep will get drawn very, very quickly as well. But guys, thank you so much for coming on tonight. It's been a wonderful show. It's brought some back, some wonderful memories and some sad ones as well. But guys, I think there's one thing left to do. And that's for us to... Drop it. Drop it. Drop it.